Nice Comic...

Hello,

New around here O_o;

Read through El Goonish Shive a few days ago, even seeming a little random with the story as it is now, it's definately already a favorite of mine ;]

Interesting forum crowd too XD

DarkShive, if you read this, I was just wondering, if it's not posted elsewhere, how long have you been drawing/writing?

I've been wondering about how much it actually takes to do a webcomic >_< -- I can almost bet that it takes a lot more then most people might initially thing XD

Thanks,

-Linguar

Greetings fellow new bunny!

Croeso i 'El goonish shive forum'

making comics are hard at first but get easier

Good day, friend Linguar! *Orders army to chant a welcome* I'm sure you'll fit right in. About your question, I've actually been wondering about that myself. Oh yes, what does "XD" mean?

Maybe someone should make a how-to on creating one ^_~ --- One thing I've got to work on is perspective XD -- 'tis a killer..

Then panel design x_x;

*Edit*
XD
Something like this (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_drawing_58.gif), but with crazier crossed eyes (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_new_09.gif)...

Hooray! New person! New people are fantastic!

Welcome, new-type-person!

You drew THAT?! *stares in aw*

that's cool :)

Those're so old ^^;

But yeah, I prefer my colored (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_030-06-cg-06.jpg) works of late though.... x_x

Typical artist...you lot always underestimate yourselves.

Very...

Hey! always underestimate yourself. that way you wont be dissapointed if people dont like your work......THAT however is superb

So anyone have any ideas on where one could start?

I've a story in mind, and a few characters.... -- I'm not sure really what's stopping me >_< -- Guess the fact that the last time I tried (http://ieextreme.virtualave.net/images/battle/) (August 2002) a joke strip for a 'art' battle on a forum (battle of pics, your characters beat on each other with visuals) -- While some thought it funny, it rather sucked visually >_<

The other guy dropped out of it, he said he didn't want to look like a bad guy or something, I think he was being nice in not saying 'You suck' :P

Well, we know you can draw from what you've posted, and if you have characters and a storyline....go for it.

maybe you could do a starter storyline wher you introduce each of the characters in someway, then go into a big storyline

Matt_Catt:

That was the intent, the first character is Maria Darling (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/text/mfact.doc) (Cheesy name, but meh), it's a complex reality, with a fun backstory x_x

The primary storyline is called 'Project Nova' -- The main characters each have their own backstory in mind, but I just havn't wrote 90% of it XD

wow! youve put alot of thought of thought into this. why not just start with what youve writen?

This is a GREAT comic outline! I'll be thrilled to read this comic when it comes out. It already sounds really good by it's story alone, and with the art I've seen, I would think this would go a long way.
:classic: :classic:

Would designing Maria's house be a good first step? -- While it's not in the story for long, if I were to draw it more then once, it might be beneficial to note where things are, to get a grip on the actual layout...

I've never done this kinda stuff before >_< -- Sure still images are fine, but going beyond that into a story format should prove to be interesting.

backgrounds are always a good place to start (even though i didnt)

This (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_031.jpg) was all I was able to come up with >_<

I'm not an expert at background design (in fact, I'm very much a n00b to it), maybe I'll get better as the story progresses... --- It's simple, but should work...?

everythings good.....except the sink looks like it belongs on sesamy street

heh, yes, indeed...
I kinda noticed that x_x

integrating characters should be fun as well x_x

Hopefully DarkShive can shed some light on what would be a good approach xD

looks pretty good to me ;)

you could always keep it fairly simple to begin with and let your talent develop...

Wow! Your stuff is really good, in my opinion. I love your character designs...

Note to DarkShive:

Hope you're not annoyed any by this thread continuing like it does o:

If you're bothered by the thread being the 'test bed' for the idea I've got, then please say so through either pm or this thread, I'd certainly not like to make the author of a good comic mad ^_^;

Thanks

-Linguar

Originally posted by Linguar
Read through El Goonish Shive a few days ago, even seeming a little random with the story as it is now, it's definately already a favorite of mine Glad you enjoy it. Oh, and it's not as random as you might think, as tommorows comic will help to support. :devious:

I don't mind people discussing their own webcomics to a reasonable degree, mostly because there are people in the Cartoonist's Lounge who might not be as helpful as one would like, and because I get a lot of e-mails from people saying that EGS inspires them to do their own stuff. I don't know how much of an influence EGS is in your case, but this thread is ok regardless.

Your art looks really great Linguar :)
Welcome to the forum

'Shifes inflewenses on mei'

a reporet buy Mafew Catt

Thanks for the support ^^;

The friend that showed me this comic, told me that I might want to think of the person who owns the forum before posting something like that :P Hence the 'Note to DarkShive'

I just finished Chapter 1, I'm about to start the second... -- It's only 7 pages though x_x -- I'd think I'd need more material to make the first chapter.. interesting? (the first chapter in Maria's timeline, that is)

And really I posted the 'nice comic' thread before really looking at the TWC forums ^^; -- I guess the discussion just grew from there

Hey, EGS sort of inspiried me to make another story (Well, I was reading through most of it at the time, thinking how it'd be funny to have a robot police spray pepper gas into someone's eye whilst arresting them for jaywalking).

Im no artist, I can barely draw a straight line, but I do like writing stories. Problem is I have never really had a fanbase

http://www.isjx.ch/tadesigners/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9162

There's an example, various chapter's are scattered through the forum (The halloween epidsode is not online) but now I am absolutly stuck for ideas. Why couldn't I think up a chacater like Grace? Then against she wouldn't fit very well into any of my universes (Which involve robot's, guns, drug use and a healthy mixture of distopia/post apoc)

What gets me is there is little violence or swearing or sex in EGS, yet it's one of the best comics I have read. I don't understand it. It could be a cartoon on a children's show yet be totally far out.

Greetings, Linguar.

About that comic idea of yours, I'd like to offer you my opinion. I have no idea what the best is that you can draw, but from the looks of things, you're really good. Now the important part to writing/drawing/designing a webcomic, is the story/humor in it. The moment you treat the comic like a visual work of art, you might have the tendancy to put way to much effort into the drawings. From what I've seen from you, you put a lot of effort into the artwork, and thus, it looks fine. I have no idea how long it took you to draw that comic, but with a little less effort, you could make a whole lot of difference.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, if you look at EGS, the drawing style is very simple, yet the story is great. That would be my goal in a webcomic.

But since I'm really not a webcomic artist, I think you'd better ask Dan or someone who knows what he's talking about.

And now I just hope I haven't bored anyone to death.

Well, if you'd ask me how long I put into pics, I'd say around 30 for something like this (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_026-06-02.jpg) or this (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_026-04.jpg). The second taking the longer of the two (I've been working with a few on means to hasten production, and loosen up the style)

Sadly when I draw larger (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_030.jpg) it takes me even longer, mainly due to cleanup -_-;

I've also done pics that took way too long (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_004-05.jpg)...

Panel flow, backgrounds, and putting the 'idea' into a managable format, are the biggest challenges that I think face me...

I'm a bit tired right now (woke up at 12 p.m., worked night shift, just got home..)

And Dan Shive, if you've any idea on what might help, I'm listening, either Dan, or those with experience in this area..

Thanks,

-Linguar

*likes the last one*
are you goint to ink them so you can colour them on the pc or leave them as pencil?

Like, wow. I'll upload some pics later to show what I have done so far, and maybe you could give me some tips on how to improve the drawing.

Because after having seen this much of your fabulous work, I'd me much more likely to turn to you for advice, rather than the other way around.

I could color them, but I figure I'll only get better at pencils and shading with them if I try.. -- That and using a mouse to color isn't exactly my idea of fun... ._.

it may take some time yes but you do get nice, solid colours like here (http://www.drunkduck.com/Guy)

Linguar, I -really- like the style you have, very very nice. :)

And I actually think a Dan bio (artist history at least) could be a neat addition to the site/FAQ.

So Matt_Catt, do you have much drawing experience?

You mentioned you didn't start on backgrounds (I only meant I'd start on them for ideas for the possible comic)

Im pretty new to drawing web comics myself. I usualy just start with the storyline and backstory, then main characters. when drawing, i start with designing the main characters, then background and props, and then any other people.

Sounds like a plan...

I'm wondering if making, pretty much, a sub-comic for each main character would be a good or bad idea ^^;

It would make it longer, but it might also bore some, I guess if I keep it interesting that's all that matters, I just hope I don't run out of ideas before that happens.

The main storyline that brings them all-together, introduces the lead characters (one guy, and one gal), after each sub-plot is completed, and the main storyline starts, it'll introduce the characters similarly as to how the sub-plots ended...

There's even one (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/text/labb_battle.htm) or two sub-stories that might branch off (that have no impact on the main storyline...). But we'll see x_x (Reya is the female lead of the main plot, Alex Morou is the male lead, in the story linked)

making a sub comic for each character would take a long time but would give each of them depth. you could do each sub comic as one page and each character have there own page

Well might be a while before I work much with this, apparently I've a few problems with consistency in various angles that I've gotta resolve first. -- Mainly profile, 3/4 and front view don't quite match up as they should...

Small matter though, surprising no one's said it before.

Drawing lines to important areas should help in this...

I should check out some other EGS threads ^_^;

I also didn't realize how much work there'd be in how many characters there's going to be, like Maria, her father, mother, best friends, co-workers, boss, and then the band of idiots that try to knock over the place she works... And that's just the first chapter, of the first character of the sub plot ._.

need help with angles?
http://www.polykarbon.com/tutorials/foreshort/foreshort.htm
and dont put too much detail on sub-characters
EDIT: polycarbons got some great tutorials

I meant more along the lines of new characters ^^;

Characters that I've been drawing for quite some time, line up for the most part because I just draw them so frequently (practice).

In order to fix the problems quicker, I'll be using lines (similarly described on PolyKarbon's tutorials, most of which I've read, his style's a bit different then mine o: )

Originally posted by Linguar
his style's a bit different then mine o: )

polycarbon is a collection of tutorials by different artists. not just one.

you could draw thick lines on a peice of paper spread evenly apart, then put a peice of paper over that and draw all the characters relative to those lines

I think this is about how she'll look, it's also the result of the 'practice' -- I've a ways to go with the practice though, since I probably wouldn't be able to do it without the guidelines connecting the various angles. -- But it's a start....

http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_031-03-05.jpg

Hope DarkShive doesn't mind images on his forum ^^; -- And it's not really nudity since, well, it's mannequin level detail

But you guys (and gals) tell me if it looks ok....

looks pretty kewl.
*IS TIRED*
YAAAAAAWN

Great jorb!

That is a really cute drawing. Awesome artwork Linguar :)

Looking good :)

Well,

Some people didn't like the hair from earlier, and thought it was rather un-natural... -- So I tweaked it a bit, sorry for the rather large pic:

http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_034-08.jpg

Later,

-Linguar

Note to Dark Shive: If you wish this thread to die, contact me ^^;

you have alot of talent.

If only my scanner could scan pencil lines as well as that

Originally posted by Matt_Catt
If only my scanner could scan pencil lines as well as that it's harder with colored pencils.

wowie!

Originally posted by jimmyinwhite
it's harder with colored pencils.

never use colour pencils. have to keep sharpening them

Wow that's great stuff Linguar. Awesome!

g-argh...artists...talented the lot of them...

only problem I have with those sketches is I think it looks a little too much like her breasts are changing size...or is that just me?

swarm has a point there.....but i avoid drawing clevage as much as i can

I basically try and avoid drawing whenever possible. Observe.

http://highschoolrpg.keenspace.com/images/draw.jpg

You may now proceed to claw out your eyes. ^_^

You draw better than I can.

*squints*
cant....read what he's saying...

Cleavage is hard to draw (please note I'm looking at this entirely from a serious artistic point of view, hence no cheeky smilies. Damn the internet...)

I think the main reason for that would be that I'm still not sure how I want her to look :P

Also the two versions to the right in the image (above), since I have absolutely no clue when it comes to styles and varied clothing, I used some reference pictures I found on the internet, my guess is the actual model bust size in the pictures could've transferred to the drawing. The left most character was just done spur of the moment, and had no real fore-thought except for pose.

A friend of mine said he might be able to give me a better idea if the comic will be pluasible if I draw the first three strips, so I think I'll start on those now.

Good idea...

I like that style, far more organic than mine. Then again my draw mode is permantly "1980" Think Ferrari Testerosa drawn by a robot baby, and that's my skill. I had an entire maths book full of my drawings (and battleship grids, ahh the joys of predrawn squared paper) but I think it was confiscated or burnt.

it takes a while to learn to draw... keep at it!

If anyone here's interested...

http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/m_neo_sk_034-08-cg-04-a.jpg

My paint shop pro abilities kinda suck >_< -- Not used to using a sketch as the lineart for an image.

Acanous, yes, it does take a while to learn to draw ._. -- here's a year ago (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/bad_drawing2.png), two years (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/kiwi2.jpg) ago, and three years (http://www.rpgsource.net/linguar/images/artwork/image1.jpg) ago, so it's not something you pick up in a few days >_<...

That's pretty cool... hand or machine coloured?

Machine colored.. yeah.

The skirt/dress thingy looks hand done...

Probably because I used the original sketch as an overlay ^^; -- the texture from the dress translated over...

I think I'm at my three-and-a-half year ago stage, yeah.

three-and-a-half-year-ago stage??

That's impressive work! The right leg is bent a little funny at the bottom, but it's not as if I could do any better ;)

Strange....she doesnt look like she sould have blue hair....blond maybe or red...brown at a streach....but not blue

Well in any case it's a lot better than my art....I've resorted to drawing people from the waist up...and I agree that cleavage is pretty hard to draw right. It just takes skill, practice...and LOTS MORE TIME STARING AT BEAUTIFUL WOMEN! I'M GONNA START RIGHT AWAY!

*rushes off to the nearest shopping center but is clotheslined in mid-sprint by a large hammer*

...shoulda seen that coming...

I know I'm a bit late, but about what Linguar said...

I think I'm about your level from 1~1.5 years ago. So if I practice for another year, I might be able to get up to your level...

Might.

Wow, that is beautifully done.

The dress looks so wonderfully colored.
And the hair and face are just absolutely astonishing.
It's odd, I can see all the stuff I need to draw in my mind but my hands just can't get it out.

Amen to that! I have the exact same problem. I'd show you all some of my artwork, but I have neither a scanner nor the computer "savvy" to pull it off...but it'll happen someday...

I also wanted to say that I think that upon further reflection of the drawing, the face is very well done I must say. I especially like the eyes. Also, there is some shadow cast upon the face which looks truly badass. Keep up the good work.

Originally posted by Major Kerina
Wow, that is beautifully done.

The dress looks so wonderfully colored.
And the hair and face are just absolutely astonishing.
It's odd, I can see all the stuff I need to draw in my mind but my hands just can't get it out.

Exactly the same here.

Me too...sometimes I just want to draw something, but it never looks right...I could practice, but I have other outlets for creativity ;)

Here's one of my best friends: A mirror.
If you can't visualize it, use a mirror. -- It can sometimes help more then you can imagine...

Another thing you can do while drawing, to note errors, use a mirror's reflection to note any errors you can't see normally, sometimes you'll note something just because it's viewed slightly differently....

Thanks for the advice Linguar.

Now there's an interesting piece of advice I haven't heard elsewhere before, thanks.

I've heard lots of animators use mirrors to see how their own mouths move or facial expressions and such, but as Walt Disney himself once said "unfortunately, animators aren't always the greatest actors..."

And the stupid thing is (and I say this from experience) if you move say your eye-lids just a milimeter, you have a completely different expression, where-as with anime not only can you hardly make such detail, but the style is usally different.

Yeah, whenever I have to try to convey a certain facial expression or gesture I will usually act it out myself, which works quite well surprisingly...people tell me I'm a very animated person, which bodes well in this case.

Um...ver? why are your eyes red?

One trick that my sister is teaching me for purposes of both body-shape (read cleavage) and getting clothes right is to begin with a nude figure, then draw the clothes as an upper layer...maybe you want to try that, Linguar...?