Why for does Ellen sleep all the time?

You know... that crystal divided Ellen and Elliot into two beings. But they came from one soul. What if that soul isn't big enough for two people... and thus the more active one is, the more passive the second is?

Orson Scott Card did something like that in "Children of the Mind" (the final Ender novel) in which due to some odd quirk of non-space, Ender ended up having three "bodies" (his original, and dopplegangers of his sister and brother). His soul cohabitated all three... but wasn't able to sustain all three. Thus one body would start falling to pieces if he wasn't focusing enough attention on it.

Might something similar be happening to Ellen?

*wry smile* I remember another little tale of course... something Death said to Susan in a Discworld novel. That even if a person's life has ended... sometimes it was possible to share your life with them, and thus give them more time. Thus with support and love from another, even if Ellen's soul-fragment isn't enough to sustain her... with someone else's aid... maybe she can live.

But then, I'm an evil ficcer, I freely admit as such. :D

Riiiight....couldn't it just be she's taking after Brownie too much?

maybe Ellen got zapped with the Brownie setting on the TF gun

Let's see. I sleep more often than I should due to the fact that I'm still recovering from whiplash, I have torn ligaments in my knee, and I'm suffering from some depression. Outside of that, I probably could survive quite nicely off 6 hours of sleep a night (instead of the 10 or so I tend to go for).

Usually when someone is sleeping too much, there's a reason for it. And trust me, when you sleep TOO much, unless there's a medical reason for it, you CAN'T sleep afterwards. So it is probably a reason, and not exactly a GOOD reason, for our dear Ellen to be sleeping at odd hours of the day.

Sorry to hear :(. I hope you recover soon.

Meh. I've lived with the whiplash for 6 months (and am starting physical therapy). Could have ben worse. I was wearing a seatbelt. I'd hate to think what may have happened if I wasn't. (As for the knee... that was just stupidity involved, along with a staircase. But hey, during the first couple of weeks I forgot about the whiplash, because it sure hurt! *chuckle*) So it's no biggie. I made off rather luckily with this.

Hooray for optomism!

Ok, so this is the worst case scenario for Ellen....what's the best case?

Well, the best-case scenario involves her being involved with a really cute guy and that she goes out late at night and thus takes catnaps during the day, and that Nanese is crying because she was turned down for said guy. Let's just hope it's not... The Playah. ;) That would make ME cry. ;)

NO! I DON'T WANNA SAY IT!
-but you have to.-
I DO NOT AND WILL NOT!!!
-ether you say it or I'll say it and blame it on you. the hammers will hurt just the same.-
fine than..... *Grumble* *Puts on a dopey happyface* :D
BEST case scenario, ellen's found another girl and Nanase is crying cuz she can't have ellen!
*Gets thwacked*

That doesn't really explain the sleeping....but your basic concept sounds like an interesting theory. But then that raises the issue of who the other girl in such love-triangle would be....theoretically.

susan? reference the school lunch when ellen was still elliot? :angel: *ducks*

Perhaps it's inherited from Elliot, he may do a lot of sleeping we don't know about ;)

Stealth sleeping? The concepts of stealth no know bounds

Overthinking an issue like this always leads to the wrong answer. Occam's Razor.

The simplest solution is usualy the correct one

Originally posted by Major Kerina
That doesn't really explain the sleeping....

Depends on whether she is "sleeping" alone.

Very good MC. And showler....:p

Ellen doesn't seem to be the type but I could be wrong. I just doubt it very severely at this stage in her development as a separate human being.

Originally posted by Major Kerina
Very good MC. And showler....:p


Yay.......what did i do?

You knew the scientific idea I was referring to.

.................Yay

The simplest solution for sleeping:

She's tired.

:p

Actually there's one other reason for someone to be sleeping.

She's escaping.

If you sleep... you can avoid life in general. I'm a bit surprised though that her mother isn't drawing her out more, but she might be a bit shellshocked still at having a daughter, and letting her find her own space.

The drinking bit... that has me confused. From the way Dan added it into the comic it suggests that Ellen is drinking. Considering that Nanese is crying (in faerie form) suggests something happened that hurt the poor girl (and I don't mean Ellen necessarily). The fact that the parents have only noticed four beers missing suggests that Ellen (if she's the culprit) has only recently started drinking.

Drinking is also used as a form of escape. Hell, the Internet is, as is reading as is TV as is about half the things we do in life (including jogging, exercise, etc.).

If you think of it... Elliot indulges in escapism as well. What else is his anime martial arts? He's one of the best people in the dojo, which suggests he focuses a lot of effort on it. And he tried to avoid the entire situation with a certain blonde-haired lass. Hell, look at their dad, who escapes using a newspaper he continually re-reads.

The question is... what is Ellen trying to escape from?

BTW, if Ellen's sleeping is due to escapism, then Dan is proving himself to have read too many psych books lately - er, I mean a master of storytelling in having such a fascinating idea for a storyline....

see now thats too complicated to even be CONCIDERD a speculation

I think it's a great speculation...pretty believable.

but it doesnt fit with the Ocams razor

My explaination does...now do you want boring simplicity, or something interesting?

Let us examine carefully the life Ellen has lived.
First, she's created when a transgendered, stressed, teenage male touched a giant diamond in a secret government facility thinking this was way too easy.
Then she has a mental breakdown, believing herself to have an existance limited to a month, gets into a fight with her male half.
Then she terrorizes her school and gets into a rather drawn out fight with "goo".
THEN she has to deal with building a new life for herself while still containing the memories and mentality of a male. And lets not forget all those lovely new menstrul cycles that she has never delt with before and KNOWS are coming.

Do ya think stress might have something to do with it??

Ryvaken Tal`Draco - king of scientific anlysiseses. I think I had too many ses. Durn it.

hmm....stress....simple and it works

You know Matt, that's basically what Tangent's argument could be said to boil down to...

I feel really sorry for Ellan again now...her life is so screwed...

...now I'm worrying about myself...it's only a character...I think I need sleep...

i know but Ry said it in less words

The problem with the escapism idea is that the issues she's having are being well repressed in day-to-day life and will therefor be far more likely to surface in REM sleep, not unlike Grace's own recurring nightmare.

Or, it could just be a plot device to get the tail-whapping joke in.

Occam's razor is actually:

"Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily."

There are many variations of Occam's Razor, most of which seem to be quite a bit stronger than the original. My favourite (apparently attributed to Einstein) is:

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

athough, "Keep it simple, stupid" is also good.

I like stress....I mean....stress sounds reason reasonable...

Oh, it was Ellen that was drinking? I thought it was Nanase. Although I'm not sure how she could get the cans through the house with the fairy avatar, though. But yeah, I'm going with stress.

It might very well have been both of them. Perhaps Justin and Nanase did come over, and the beer somehow came into play.

It further occurs to me that Elliot was told that Ellen was staying at a friend's house. Ellen really only has a few friends, Grace and Sarah were out, and Nanase seems far too sad to have Ellen staying. Ellen staying with Justin is possible, but doesn't seem to make any sense to me, and I doubt she'd be with Susan. So...where is Ellen?

I doubt a fairy could put away four cans of beer and besides she'd have a less sober look....

Maybe Ellen is staying up all night riding with a lesbian biker gang. What? You mean this isn't the place to speculate wildly?

woo! wild speculation time!
Ellen was abducted by aliens when they needed a new disguise (the one mr.Verres gave them was starting to be suspected...) and when they beamed back down and paid no attention to nanase she thought that ellen was ignoring her and WHO KEEPS TOUCHING MY EAR!! CUT IT OUT!!!

The beer was actually stolen by the Playa who broke in while they were out.

the beer was stolen by hedge, who was trying to ether make a peace offering to the owls or entoxicate them, and than he saw ellen, thought she was elliot, and kidnapped her!

Why does Ellen sleep so much? Maybe it's just because hanging around with Grace all day is exhausting...

That works.

There could also be an even simpler explanation. Ellen doesn't go to school, she has no job, so basically she just sits around the house all day (when she's not at Tedd's with Grace). That has to get pretty boring. Boredom can lead to lethargy. I know that sometimes when I don't have anywhere to go or anything to do for a few days I'll often find myself just lying down to take a nap in the middle of the day. Besides, my bed's comfy.

Ooooo, very good point ljwamh.

I get bored and moons explode.
or i eat.

I get bored and mice heads explode
then i have to get new cartrages for my shotgun

My brother got bored and built a gocart that can hit 45 MPH. Sadly, I'm not exagerating.

Originally posted by Illjwamh
That works.

There could also be an even simpler explanation. Ellen doesn't go to school, she has no job, so basically she just sits around the house all day (when she's not at Tedd's with Grace). That has to get pretty boring. Boredom can lead to lethargy. I know that sometimes when I don't have anywhere to go or anything to do for a few days I'll often find myself just lying down to take a nap in the middle of the day. Besides, my bed's comfy.

Isn't she going to the other school in the town now? (may I be struck down for forgetting its name...)

Originally posted by Swarm
Isn't she going to the other school in the town now? (may I be struck down for forgetting its name...) She'll be going to Moperville South soon, but not yet. One of the reasons for her going out with Nanase and Justin (if you'll refer to part I of Night Out) is due to the fact that they'll all be going to school together soon, and that they hadn't seen eachother since the last part of Sister, so they were concerned it would be awkward.

I think we missed the obvious. It's a plot device.

I doubt it's lethagy, Maybe she developed mild nacroplexy as an undocumented side effect of the blarney stone (I mean the grand diamond of name-i-forget) and Elliot should be concerned, after all Ellen is him to an extent. If my head hurts (or any part of my body) I am concerned. If my alter ego was hurt I would be concerned.

Then again Elliot Doesn't strike me as the most sensitive type.

Elliot strikes me as very sensative when it comes to Ellen. Remember when Mr. Veers told Ellen just how not-Elliot she was? "WHAT DID YOU DO TO MAKE MY SISTER CRY!?"

Yeah... Elliot's like me, protective of his little sister.

I still wonder why that made Ellen cry, In that situation (and I have fantasised about a male doppleganger of myself) I would be concerned, but crying is a thing I have not been able to do in years.

You've just been informed that all your memories are neither true nor false, and that the walking talking cat is the guy that is in control of what you precieve to be your life. The guy who has a double can adjust a lot easier than the doppleganger can.

Really? For most of my life I was convinced I was the doppelganger, always wondered what happened to the original. I tink of myself as the original but EGS reminded me that im not on my own... and bought up some other bad memories. On the whole I like EGS, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting bandwidth here.

*scratches head* CRS2117...what are you talking about?

I think he thinks he's his sister's Ellen.

Um. no you're not?

well, I don't know that for sure, after all, my ruptures-in-reality sence is only a 500km range...

Ellen cried because it was an effective plot device that allowed Dan to have Elliot call Ellen his "sister" and thus improve the "coolness" factor of Elliot. ;) In addition, Ellen had been through a rather stressful time, what with thinking she was going to die in under 30 days, as well as losing the woman she loves, and stuff like that.

She was holding up until a certain insensitive twit who works for the government took a sharp stick and started poking her emotions with it saying "your life as you know it is a lie and you have to deal with it missy!" ;) Well, in essence. :D

As for why Ellen's so sleepy... I don't think it's beer. I mean... it would not be too bright of the girl to be stealing beers from her folks. And she seems fairly bright for the most part (though this may also be a call for attention - part and parcel of the whole "depression" angle...)

Ellen is just as smart as elliot... and diddn't Dan say something about her having one more side efect that has yet to be revealed? y'know, after the beams of TF V5?

Originally posted by Tangent
Orson Scott Card did something like that in "Children of the Mind" (the final Ender novel)

Ummm, Tangent? There are three Ender novels after "Children of the Mind". Although they *are* at an, ahem, tangent to the original storyline, they are sort-of sequels.

They're also quite good, BTW. I thought I'd mention 'em just in case you hadn't heard about them. (Shadow Puppets actually caught *me* by surprise.)

The books are:

Enders Game
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind

Ender's Shadow
Shadow of the Hegemon
Shadow Puppets

Why is Ellen not going to the school yet? She's missing classes and such isn't she?

Actually, Guru, the books after Children of the Mind deal with the members of Ender's group from Command School and their lives after the war. They are about Peter, too, I think. Anyway, back on subject, if Ellen hasn't been drinking, then who has?? Not that I think it is her, but who else is a possibility? Brownie? Snowflake, I think that she doesn't go to school because she was given time to adjust to her new life by Mr. Verres. Hey, shouldn't they have summer vacation in Moperville too? I got out of school Friday, maybe they are getting out soon.

Originally posted by *Testing*
Snowflake, I think that she doesn't go to school because she was given time to adjust to her new life by Mr. Verres. Hey, shouldn't they have summer vacation in Moperville too? I got out of school Friday, maybe they are getting out soon.

The comic isn't really realtime, as its only been a matter of weeks to a month (I think) since this whole shebang got started storyline wise...

I don't consider the Peter Wiggins books (or Ender's Shadow) to be sequels, even if they were written after CotM. Instead, I consider them to be prequels, as they took place before that series of events. Don't forget, the Peter Wiggins of CotM is not Peter. He even states it outright to his colleague. He's Ender's twisted memory and imagination on what Peter would be.

It would be interesting to see what life Ender leads as Peter 2... but I doubt Card will return to that story. There's not really anything left to tell, not really.

I expect they'd wait for a new term to start before Ellan goes to school.

Why? She has all of Elliot's learning and as I understand it it's the same school district so the curiculum should be similar enough.

Originally posted by Tangent
Ellen cried because it was an effective plot device that allowed Dan to have Elliot call Ellen his "sister" and thus improve the "coolness" factor of Elliot.

Speaking of insensitive *glare*....

It's easier to introduce a new person to a school at the beginning of a new term...and being the other school, they might work the curriculum differently.

Very good point Swarm. But it's hard to tell exactly when the comic is taking place.

Well, they said she was starting in a week or so anyway, so more than likely my hypothesis hits closer to "reality".
http://www.elgoonishshive.com/story.php?0280 panel three.

Couple weeks actually it says. And it's been an undetermined number of weeks since that comic. So she could be starting in a month or on Monday...all I know is it'll be some time still. How non-relatives react to her pheremones (or even how strong they are now) is still something I'm not clear on.

Yes but in http://www.elgoonishshive.com/story.php?0298 we are told that a week has already passed since then. And http://www.elgoonishshive.com/story.php?0328 gives an inditerminent and yet very short duration.

Freaky memory man strikes again!

Ok, lets just settle on "soon"...

Not another EGS timeline debate... I'm getting OUT of here... NOW.
*Presses the hyperdrive button*

Originally posted by Major Kerina
Speaking of insensitive *glare*....

*laughter* Oh yes, I definitely look insensitive by that comment alone. But you have to note I *did* add a ;) to that, to let people know I was joking, and went on to give a more realistic reason why Ellen would be crying (if this was reality).

Besides, I freely admit to being an evil bastard. :D

And there's no shame in that.







EDIT: 300 posts. Um, w00t?

Actually, she'll be starting class about a month into the term. This is for more story convinience than realism, because realism has no place in these walls!

*Ryvaken pulls out a gold watch*
You are getting sleepy...you will post ahead of schedule...you will become genetically engineered to produce the milk of twenty cows...I mean the art of twenty artists...you will forget how foolish I'm acting...you will crown me and give me a salary for no reason...shooow Ryv the money...

...and you will speed up the develompment of any Ellen/Nanase relationship you may be planning...

*ahem*

Besides, if I remember correctly, the reason she's waiting to go to school in the first place is so she can get her affairs in order, right? She can't schedule her life around the school term.

...sounds a good way to schedule a life to me :D

leave The Artist to his important work! :p

*scene involving dan in front of a tv flashes across mind*

ah well...

sleepy.....need to post stuff.............need to milk artist cows.

*Puts paint into Freak's pot*